Transcript of Meetup
A fund grants program right and the Bounty program
For sure!
Um, and so Aragon is a grants program for sure. Um, and um, I don't feel all that great about the fund programs. Yes thankfully Is ECF included Ethereum Community Fund ECF. I don't know the details of how its structured, but I don't know. I don't know
What's the difference between a fund and a grants program?
Fund is basically for profit.
You become fund managers you're looking for Investments to compound your Capital. Meanwhile a grants program is more altruistic. But you said you do not you're not you're not bullshitting the fund idea as someone who runs a fund.
It's really the platform fund idea. You know that uh, Joel my partner calls 'em fat foundations.
Um, and that managing money, for-profit takes a fair amount of time and resources and we are seeing a lot of signs of it. Once you inject that extra incentive it pulls resources from the protocol development that the ICO proceeds were actually raised to fund. Yeah, and you see things like, you know people who launched ICOs joining other fund managers like it's become a clusterfuck and everyone wants to do everything and so there's no focus. Yeah and without Focus as fart execute. Yeah. so, that's just one of the benefits of raising a little amount of money, you know, you're gonna die. I know I'm gonna die in 11 months and I'm very very focused on delivering a lot of value for six.
And uh in terms of sort of action items, um, go ahead and let Luis & Jorge know that we spoke and I will be in the background there on that side. Three of us have a relationship with them which is good. we can we can all kind of yeah go to them and they'll take it more serious. I would love to actually take it Beyond Aragon though, um, because let's say you want to get like $500,000.
I would prefer to spread that across like 2-4 projects. I know Filecoin just and that's their thing. Um, and there are a few others out there.
He probably think would be fairly likely.
But all grants programs, um would be ideal because then you're not going to have like, it's hard. You don't want to get this Schism in your investor or grantor base of people trying to pull you in different options.
You want to make sure that all the capitalist align the same position. I really like Filecoin as well because I think that plays a really could potentially play a huge part in delivering that.
What Filecoin is to data storage this there's definitely a connection - 
Well in content addressable data-
yeah, they're unstructured data. This is structured data - interesting. Yeah. Well, we're starting to realize that knowing the states were blockchain is not an easy problem. It's not just everyone said to me: "Richard you should look at the token balances - they're all in the contract". I'm going to give you a wallet address and you give me all the tokens in and they all come back I go.
Okay, right strong division to make between knowing the state of blockchain versus knowing your accounts and being very specific about per account. I think that per account thing is the way you're going to make it decentralized and every computer has their own vision of the thing. No one really needs the vision. Or well people need to vision of the entire thing. That's a whole different thing that's analysis or chain wide data. Nobody really needs that if you just want per account, so that says something to put I think in protocol that should be in there. It's a lot like what Chris needs to go to understand the market versus what our customers need
  • to do my taxes or something -
  • The goal is that we create a static base of assets that can be used for all those experiences. And this is where an app Marketplace would develop on top that actually curates parts of the data for specific variances. Um, and that's where you truly do get sort of this ecosystem. I'm gonna have to run. Um, do you have a white paper or something for the next?
  • I'm happy to send things over to Juan and Filecoin, And or what I'll do actually I'll figure out exactly who's the head of the grants program. Um, because we're involved with Protocol Labs and happy to make that connection it would just um make it stronger lead if I can go in with whatever materials all I have.
  • So I'm just Sure. Yeah, I'll follow up with my notes and follow up with everyone over email so you can all kick off things. 
  • Chris, is your thought that grants programs the right place to get the ball rolling on this but I guess my question is do you think that looking longer term if it says turned into sort of protocol thing that there might be a place for a for-profit kind of investment at some point.
  • Yeah, you know, what's what I'm feeling is: to keep this low stakes just right to build to get you enough funding. So, you know that you have, you know, an abundant amount of food on the table for next year and you don't have to worry about that? But then from there, I I do think that there's the possibility for a protocol. And this is probably just a backlash from 2017. We are seeing so many teams sort of struggling; the protocol is suffering from the high expectations that right. 
  • Yeah at the money that they raised. 
  • Yeah because they need multi-trillion dollar valuations to deliver any kind of return. That's what I think so many people misunderstand about why Ethereum's winning; it's because it started with a low Network value and people like myself contributed a little bit of time and then go enormously rewarded now, I feel like owe the protocol a debt.
  • So this is why all these incredible new consensus mechanisms: anyone who's launching with a billion dollar valuation hasn't thought deeply enough about why they're winning. It's because they gave 100 billion dollars to 100,000 nerds and we all feel pretty grateful and now we're trying to deliver on the promise and that's why I'm looking for that third great protocol, which has amazing things.
  • It has amazing new properties but launches at 10 million valuation from some room at Stanford and off it goes! 
  • And so that's exactly right and I think that with the grant program, you know, there's nothing to prevent you in year two years if this does become a problem and it's fantastically successful to donate back to the the grants program say like a percentage - there's no expectation of that. And I think that you know, these teams that have their heart in the right place will do it regardless of whether that happens or not - that's the whole point the grant program. I'm sorry to have to leave you this wonderful. Thank you for pulling this together and happy to meet some new faces. and I'm sure this is just the first of many right? I'll see all of you shortly!
  • See you on the internet!
  • I think that data will be in the protocol eventually. I think it has to be it's so obvious that when anyone enters I have a I have a distributed Ledger of transactions. The obvious question is give me mine - I want mine. 
  • Are you aware of any EAP proposals right now to do that?t like I can give yeah I am there was one written probably the fifth day of the existence of the year.
  • It's close. I don't know. It's they stopped. Gavin Wood made a comment the first comment. "We can't do that" and then you know every job I used to be able to find this. I can't find that VIP but to be a little bit. I need a list of transactions for my account.
  • I mean as a protocol developer like I can see they things happening. It's just not gonna happen in like I don't think it'll almost certainly won't happen the next year. I thought money. I have a lot of ideas about sort of stepwise movement towards an eventual solution for that. 
  • I think one thing that may be related to this interesting is I think ether itself may be fully abstracted and Eternity coming years ERC20 and just like any other.
  • And another possibility here is paying gas using other tokens, like all these things are on the table that I just don't see any that happening anytime soon. And you guys can't wait a year or two years or three years for this
  • The whole ecosystem can't because you are now trying to defend against 100 people who want to kill each other; they ethereum is is under attack.
  • I don't that's why I find the slowness of the etherium community to be so frustrating. Hey, how's it going? Were you the one who wrote about this? Posted his tirade on ready kind of end of last year exactly. I think I'm gonna crush ethereum for some reason.
  • Well, I'm just I don't believe anyone's got a chance yet because they've misunderstand why yeah.
  • Yeah. Yeah. I am actually with you. 
  • [missed who this was]
  • yeah, so we connected on Twitter and she been going down the crypto radical. I thought had dragged her into the some of the issues that were having once you hit the edges. Um, and so to catch you up with just been uh discussing how it's rather strange that we cannot figure out token balances and transactions.
  • And discussing different ways in which we can incentivize people to both fund work in this area and then on an ongoing basis kind of fun the continual provision and and distribution of data because if we can't know the state of etherium then what's the point? So yeah, that's what we've been discussing.
  • I think it's a question. Like again, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here. Like I really like in my own head. I'm not doing a great job maybe at this data Marketplace ideas. Yeah fairly clear. Yeah, like the bounds are fairly clearly defined and we look at you know. Projects like Truebit, um Foam is another project I like a lot that's really pushed the envelope forward and then Ocean protocol. Yeah. My biggest question is why hasn't someone done this already? Like what are we missing? Usually? It's just I don't know. Just haven't tried Yeah, why didn't they what's usually the property? There's Enigma, yea
  • Targeting different places starting with Enigma, yeah the MIT team, but you're right in that there's not a ton of decentralized data at one place. There's most of more Central build on this. I think the Ocean is actually working on it. I spoke with them like few weeks ago, but it sounds like they're feeling there's going to be something really really ambitious.
  • Yeah, I think there's the there's the pragmatic engineering solution. And then there's the ocean here. I'm one of them there. Yeah ocean is just like trying to realign it centers around a special intelligence. It's amazing.
  • Trying to boil the ocean, haha
  • I mean trend is an absolute alien. Honestly, you really is really it's like applied.
  • Uh, it's an applied data marketplace, right and it has somewhat of a fat protocol. Um, okay functionality that it means whereas it feel like with this to really be ubiquitous if it were relatively thin functionality, right? Um, and therefore, you know, universally applicable or at least anything that's got out of VM of some kind um, and that can plug because I'm thinking potentially beyond the theorem.